Australian adventurer Jon Muir is one of my heroes. He’s got a lifetime of superb expeditions under his belt and has made one of my favourite adventure films. I’md love to have asked him a thousand questions, but I was a bit scared so I kept it to ten!

• ALASTAIR: You have kayaked, skied, sailed, walked, climbed on your expeditions. You’ve climbed Everest, walked unsupported across Australia and reached both Poles. Why have you chosen to be a ‘generalist’ adventurer rather than specializing in one type of thing (e.g. climbing)?

Jon:  My adventure career spans 39 years now so there’s been plenty of time to diversify. My first passion was mountaineering. After many years climbing extraordinary new routes all over the world I had a sense that I had achieved the very best that I personally could in all fields of climbing. Even during my mountaineering years other different adventures were calling. Also it was time to stop mountaineering because it was getting ugly. People weren’t working as teams so much. There was an increasing amount of hype about summits per se, rather than the experience of the climb and the beauty of the mountains. Getting to the top at all costs was becoming more popular and I didn’t enjoy being around that mindset. Well, that’s why I stopped guiding on Everest anyway.

• ALASTAIR: It took you 3 attempts to get up Everest. It took 4 attempts to cross Australia. I’mm interested in the failed attempts: how did you feel about yourself after each failure, and how did the failures help you when you returned to try again?

I never felt like I had failed. To me, success is survival. In extreme environments, whilst attempting extreme challenges, even if the objective isn’t reached, if you’ve gotten home safely you’ve succeeded. The early attempts at both Everest and my unsupported crossing of Australia were enormously rewarding. I learnt so much about myself, about the terrain that I was negotiating, about my gear and how to improve on it. Those early attempts were my life unfolding, I was living every moment of them, not focused on just the end goal, and they were intensely rewarding because of that. Failure to me is simply not having a go in the first place.

 Those early attempts were my life unfolding, I was living every moment of them, not focused on just the end goal, and they were intensely rewarding because of that. Failure to me is simply not having a go in the first place.

• ALASTAIR: What is worse – being too cold or being too hot?

Jon: Being too hot. If you’re cold you can always stick on another jumper. If you’re pushing hard physically, it’s much easier to do it in a cold environment. Then all the heat your body generates doesn’t overwhelm you.

• ALASTAIR: Why have you climbed Everest more than once, and why did you do a second long walk into Australia (2007)? I imagine that it is a very different experience the second time once you know that you are capable of achieving it?

Jon: I only summited Everest once. I’ve gotta say I just don’t get all the hype about Everest. Sure it was my boyhood dream, but as things panned out in my mountaineering career I’d summited some seriously technically difficult mountains before summiting Everest. I mean Everest is just a high altitude hill walk, essentially. You don’t have to be a mountaineer to get to the top. You just have to really want to do it and have plenty of money. The Sherpas are the true mountaineers on Everest, most of the people who climb it these days are adventure tourists with very little skill. There’s also so much media hype about things like’The Seven Summits” or the  14  26,247 feet peaks (isn’t that a magic number!) These mountains, climbed by their normal routes, don’t even justify the word ‘climbing’. Everybody is wanting to join the queue or, if it’s polar walking, break a record by doing the same old thing but just a little faster. Australian mountaineers climbed more new routes in the Himalaya in the 1980’s than in all the time before and since. There remains no shortage of new routes or unclimbed mountains but everyone seems to want to climb the ones the media tells them to. There’s a serious lack of imagination out there.

Why did I do my second long walk in Australia? Throughout the early decades of my career I was looking for something that would really push me to the limits of my endurance. The rock climbing, mountaineering, sea kayaking and polar journeys never took me close. Those unsupported desert walks, across the continent in 2001 and to the Geographic Center in 2007 posed more of a challenge and were in a totally different league than all my previous expeditions. Every day of the 128 days on my continental crossing were more difficult than my summit day on Everest. I thrive on that intense challenge. I love the desert country too. It’s so clean and wild and ancient. It has amazing presence.

You know I never really assume I’m going to complete any project. That second big desert walk was entirely different to the traverse. I thought it was going to be easier because it was two thirds of the distance, but it proved more challenging. Why was that? The country was experiencing the worst drought in recorded history so bush tucker and water were very scarce. The route was more difficult too. Much rougher, much harder to negotiate with my cart than the route I chose for my traverse. So, you never know. Sure you gain skills and knowledge from previous attempts, and a degree of confidence in yourself, but every moment of everyone’s lives are unique moments so it’s best not to assume too much about how things might unfold.

I’ve gotta say I just don’t get all the hype about Everest. I mean Everest is just a high altitude hill walk, essentially.

• ALASTAIR:  How was the experience of walking across Australia altered by filming the trip?

Jon: Look, it really didn’t alter it much because I just filmed the stuff that interested me, and fortunately it interested other people too. It certainly made for more work and the camera was heavy, but yeah, essentially the trip was the same. Now, if there had been a film crew along it would have changed everything. Totally. I wasn’t pretending to be out there alone. I was alone; and I wouldn’t have done it any other way.

• ALASTAIR: You summited Everest and immediately wondered “what next?” Do you feel it is a blessing or a curse to be constantly thinking of the next challenge, the next limit to try to push?

Jon: I’m always wondering ‘what next?’ If I wasn’t I might as well be dead. I love the lure of another adventure in the wilderness. My list of adventures in my head is way too long for just one lifetime.

• ALASTAIR: I read in an interview you say “some of the worst days are some of the best days.” What do you mean by that?

Jon: I mean that when I’m really pushing hard I start to draw on an inner reserve that’s only accessible through adversity. I like the absorption in the moment that place allows me. It draws out a part of myself that is more powerful that the usual concept I hold of myself during an average domestic sort of day. Those most difficult days stand out very clearly in my memory. There’s nothing ho-hum about intensely challenging times. You feel really, really alive.

It draws out a part of myself that is more powerful that the usual concept I hold of myself during an average domestic sort of day.

• ALASTAIR: I read that one of your favourite pastimes is sitting in front of a map and dreaming of journeys. I love doing that too! People often ask me for advice on choosing a journey they should take. What are the ingredients to look for in a decent adventure?

Jon: Imagination! You’ve got to have it inside you first. No-one else can tell you the ingredients. What does your heart long for? Ask yourself that question and see what comes up, and when you get get an answer, act on it. Don’t let anyone tell you your heart’s desire can’t be done. Just do it. I’ve gotta say though, I suspect that if you have to ask some one else to tell you the ingredients of a decent adventure, perhaps adventure’s not really your thing.

Don’t let anyone tell you your heart’s desire can’t be done. Just do it.

• ALASTAIR: It took you 11 years from when you first “touched ice” to getting up Everest, and several years of training to prepare for your Australia trek. What advice do you have for young people who dream of epic adventures but do not know where or how to begin?

Jon: Start small. Sleep out in your garden. Go for day walks and picnics in wild places- then overnight adventures. Build up slowly. See if you like being out in the wilderness for short amounts of time. See if the inevitable discomfort is something you can take in your stride. Do your research, ask questions, save up a bit of money then get out there and do it. But don’t let the lack of money stop you. For example, I’m 53 and I still sleep on the side of the road when I’m travelling to save money so I can spend longer on my next adventure. Just get out there. Be persistent: epic adventures take incredible dogged determination. You really have to be prepared to try again and again and to learn from your mistakes.

The classic British mountain explorer and sailor, Bill Tilman, when asked after a lecture, ‘How do I get on an expedition,’ replied, ’Put on your boots and go!’ In the 1930’s Bill and Eric Shipton once organized a Himalayan expedition on the back of an envelope, whilst sitting in a cafe. They went.

 I’m 53 and I still sleep on the side of the road when I’m travelling to save money so I can spend longer on my next adventure. Just get out there.

• ALASTAIR: If I gave you £1000, what adventure would you go and do?

Jon: Something small and sweet and close to home. It’s amazing how many adventures there are to be had close to home. My best friend and climbing partner, Mark Moorehead, and I, had a saying which has become one of my favourite mottos for life, “Let your imagination guide you!”

• ALASTAIR: Thank you very much.

Jon’s website is here. He is also now on Twitter (something I find simultaneously good news and also a little sad! Some people are too awesome for Twitter…) Jon is planning a new adventure at the moment so keep an eye out for news of that.

My new book, Grand Adventures, is out now.
It’s designed to help you dream big, plan quick, then go explore.
The book contains interviews and expertise from around 100 adventurers, plus masses of great photos to get you excited.

I would be extremely grateful if you bought a copy here today!

I would also be really thankful if you could share this link on social media with all your friends – http://goo.gl/rIyPHA. It honestly would help me far more than you realise.

Thank you so much!